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  #1  
Old 08-29-2008, 09:25 AM
carolwicks carolwicks is offline
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Lightbulb OK..lets do something intelligent here!

Some of us are not up to date on politics... soon we will have to vote for the President of the United States. i have been told that i am not doing my duty as an American citizen because i am not familiar with the issues of each candidate. and it is partly true. so what i would like from you is this:
please tell me what each candidate stands for and what benefit they would be to our country's future. PLEASE dont not be insulting or rude... we should know what to expect before we can make judgement. before we vote we should know what we are voting for. which candidate wants to continue the war/which doesnt? which supports "infanticide"/which doesnt? which can deal with leaders in other countries/ which cant?which will help the elderly with their medical problems? which will do something about the alarming crime rate? things like that.... i want to vote and i DO take it seriously! please help me learn about the candidates. thank you... no predjudice please...just the issues.
carolwicks aka OZ

Last edited by carolwicks : 08-29-2008 at 11:57 AM.
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Old 08-29-2008, 09:52 AM
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If you want the truth, no predjudices, and issues only; why do you put the differences between the koran and the bible in your post?
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Old 08-29-2008, 10:04 AM
carolwicks carolwicks is offline
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Default Koran/Bible

one of the issues with people is that Obama supposedly believes in the Koran rather than the Bible. most dont know the difference so i looked some of it up (generalizing of course) to show the difference...
thanks for the site.
carol
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Old 08-29-2008, 10:19 AM
ovalracer44 ovalracer44 is offline
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Originally Posted by carolwicks View Post
one of the issues with people is that Obama supposedly believes in the Koran rather than the Bible. most dont know the difference so i looked some of it up (generalizing of course) to show the difference...
thanks for the site.
carol
It should not matter. That is why our forefathers wanted freedom of religion.

People have tended to skew the facts a little. We are not at war with the Muslim religion. We are at war with radical whack jobs. Hitler was raised a Catholic, and although he was not known to be a religious person, it was reported that he believed in the Bible. He was quite arguably one of the worlds worst terrorists ever know. Does this mean we should fear a Christian presidential candidate?

Religion and politics are two things that should never be combined. One should not use religion to govern people. Religion should not influence laws.

That said, Obama says what a lot of people are feeling. Whether we can trust him is another. I agree and disagree with a lot of points he makes. Same with Mccain. Can we trust Mccain. He is willing to keep us at war regardless of how in debt it makes this country. We are already at the breaking point of which our creditors will soon no longer front the U.S. government money. Both sides Republican and Democrat have become big spenders. No longer is the Republican party affiliated with Western Conservatism. The the republican party is now a mark of southern conservatism. Two unrelated types of conservatism.

Western Conservatism = Fiscal conservatism
Southern Conservatism = Social conservatism/ Christan influence

I for one am fed up with southern conservatives. No where does anyone have the right to take their religion and use it to govern my or anyone elses personal lives.

This election will be a matter of what type of screwing do you prefer.
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Old 08-29-2008, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by carolwicks View Post
one of the issues with people is that Obama supposedly believes in the Koran rather than the Bible. most dont know the difference so i looked some of it up (generalizing of course) to show the difference...
thanks for the site.
carol
But the FACT is, is he is a Christian so that should have been left out of the original post. Now if you want to decide if you like his type of Christianity, that is up to you. Should we not vote for McCain because he is considering a Jew for a running mate?
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Old 08-29-2008, 11:57 AM
carolwicks carolwicks is offline
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Default you misunderstood...

i personally agree with you....but i have heard people say they wont vote for him because he believes in the Qu'ran and not the Bible. Christians seem to think that stores that advertise Christian ownership are to be trusted. they think anyone who professes to be Christian are automatically trustworthy... well it aint so... of all the differences you could find to convince me about who i should consider for president... i dont care if a Jew, a Mexican, a black, or anyone else...run... just tell me the IMPORTANT reasons i should consider one over the other. leave predjudice out because i am not predjudice.... i will remove the difference because my reasoning seems to have confused you...or maybe i worded it wrong.. oh God... please try to give me the information i seek.....
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Old 08-29-2008, 12:09 PM
Cindy Petty Cindy Petty is offline
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Default Obama/McCain

I have not listened to any speeches that McCain has done nor have i paid much attention where i think attention is needed at this point in the game. I did listen to Obama's wife and her speech and i did listen to Obama's speech over coffee and company. And the only thing that made me stop my conversation with company was when he said lowering taxes. THAT will get my attention every time. Obama has broad ideas, excellent outlooks on how this country should be run. I think he would do his absolute best at running a country. Many would not agree. But i believe that he is our future or he has a good chance at winning this election and will show this country his very best. The fact that he seems genuine in his speeches along with his backers is another plus. We all have different religions but i dont think that makes us any different. We have the same body parts. We are no different except the color or skin which should make no bit of difference at all. But my vote is for Obama. He will make this country better or at least die trying.
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Old 08-29-2008, 02:46 PM
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Default Try This Link

Carol, I have had this link as a referrance to all the candidates. It's almost a year old, but it has the two candidates that are running now. Try it and I hope it is still active.
----JIM---



http://www.wqad.com/Global/link.asp?L=259460
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Old 08-29-2008, 03:31 PM
Rick Williamson Rick Williamson is offline
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Originally Posted by Cindy Petty View Post
I have not listened to any speeches that McCain has done nor have i paid much attention where i think attention is needed at this point in the game. I did listen to Obama's wife and her speech and i did listen to Obama's speech over coffee and company. And the only thing that made me stop my conversation with company was when he said lowering taxes. THAT will get my attention every time. Obama has broad ideas, excellent outlooks on how this country should be run. I think he would do his absolute best at running a country. Many would not agree. But i believe that he is our future or he has a good chance at winning this election and will show this country his very best. The fact that he seems genuine in his speeches along with his backers is another plus. We all have different religions but i dont think that makes us any different. We have the same body parts. We are no different except the color or skin which should make no bit of difference at all. But my vote is for Obama. He will make this country better or at least die trying.
But WHERE is he going to get all the money is will take to do everything he says he will do. It's like he thinks the goverment is there to do everything for everyone. It is not. That's not what our cuntry is based on. That's the kind of thing that has me holding back from voting for him. And I for sure like the pick that McCain has done for V. P.
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Old 08-29-2008, 07:38 PM
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From what I have seen since following politics some 40 years is this:
The Dems. want to control your life and 'provide' for you from the "womb to the tomb". And in between, tax the hell out of you for it.
----JIM----
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Old 08-29-2008, 07:49 PM
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Default Agree

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Originally Posted by ocalasp76 View Post
From what I have seen since following politics some 40 years is this:
The Dems. want to control your life and 'provide' for you from the "womb to the tomb". And in between, tax the hell out of you for it.
----JIM----
I agree with you Jim, but the Republicans have somewhere lost their way. We need to get back to real Reagan conservatism! I am sick of voting for the lesser of two evils! Used to be Republicans believed in a hand up and not a hand out! If you want to see what hand outs have done all you have to do is look at New Orleans!
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Old 08-29-2008, 08:20 PM
Edm Edm is offline
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I forget who mentioned it but we need a redo. I believe that Mike Huckabee was our best shot. All I have heard from Obama is change and negative campaign adds about McCain. Dont know how or what he is going to change and I really dont think that I want to know.
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Old 08-29-2008, 08:22 PM
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I agree with you Jim, but the Republicans have somewhere lost their way. We need to get back to real Reagan conservatism! I am sick of voting for the lesser of two evils! Used to be Republicans believed in a hand up and not a hand out! If you want to see what hand outs have done all you have to do is look at New Orleans!
You said a mouthfull too. Lesser of two evils turns into 'the most convincing liar'. Wish they had a party registration using those discriptions. We do have the best political system compared to other countries, but it still needs some work. JMO
--JIM--

P.S. And who started that system of hand outs and welfare??
Dem. Pres. LBJ's "War on Poverty" 1964
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Old 08-29-2008, 08:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cindy Petty View Post
I have not listened to any speeches that McCain has done nor have i paid much attention where i think attention is needed at this point in the game. I did listen to Obama's wife and her speech and i did listen to Obama's speech over coffee and company. And the only thing that made me stop my conversation with company was when he said lowering taxes. THAT will get my attention every time. Obama has broad ideas, excellent outlooks on how this country should be run. I think he would do his absolute best at running a country. Many would not agree. But i believe that he is our future or he has a good chance at winning this election and will show this country his very best. The fact that he seems genuine in his speeches along with his backers is another plus. We all have different religions but i dont think that makes us any different. We have the same body parts. We are no different except the color or skin which should make no bit of difference at all. But my vote is for Obama. He will make this country better or at least die trying.
Hi Cindy. The last line of your comment reminded me of a joke I heard.

Obama gets to the Pearly Gates and knocks. St. Peter asked who he is and he says "Barak Obama, the first black president of the United States of America". St Peter says "WOW, when did that happen"??
Barak says "about 20 minutes ago".

Sorry, could not resist....
----JIM----
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Old 08-29-2008, 11:14 PM
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Todd McCreary Todd McCreary is offline
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But the FACT is, is he is a Christian so that should have been left out of the original post.

no, the FACT is, he claims to be a Christian. whether he's lying or not is pretty much irrelevant to me as i believe him when his actions say he believes Black Liberation Theology:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_liberation_theology

for those out of the loop, in shorthand plain vanilla Liberation Theology is Marxism crossed with Jesuit Catholicism.

Black Liberation Theology is the above with the racialist aspirations of Adolph Hitler tacked on for good measure. Black Liberation comments are what got Obama's pastor, Jeremiah Wright, thrown under the bus once they hit YouTube a couple of months back.



I believe that Mike Huckabee was our best shot.

he's no more of a small guv'mint consertave than Bush Jr.




Dem. Pres. LBJ's "War on Poverty" 1964

at least 30 years off. FDR.
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Old 08-30-2008, 12:46 AM
ovalracer44 ovalracer44 is offline
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[
at least 30 years off. FDR.
Who had the first idea for the Interstate system. A network of roads eventually undertaken by Eisenhower, and commonly known as the Eisenhower Interstate system. A welfare project. At least more commonly in those days welfare was, the government had things it needed done, and people needed some work so they met in the middle. This is how most government jobs came into existence. What is a government job now was originally welfare. The only original necessary government jobs was teachers, police officers (and most of them were volunteers) and the defense system. Now you could fill a book with the positions of government jobs that exist on your local level.
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Old 08-30-2008, 03:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd McCreary View Post

Dem. Pres. LBJ's "War on Poverty" 1964

at least 30 years off. FDR.
Sorry to bust the bubble Todd. FDR was new deal and Social Security.
War on Poverty, State of the union address, LBJ 1964.(Google 'war on poverty')
----JIM----
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Old 08-30-2008, 06:10 AM
Edm Edm is offline
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A few points to remember and consider: You can verify the tax information at http://money.cnn.com/news/specials/e...08/index..html, if you'd like.

(INTERESTING DATA JUST RECEIVED ON TAXES & PROPOSED CHANGES IN TAXES AFTER 2008 GENERAL ELECTION.)

Time to consider your pocketbook:

CAPITAL GAINS TAX


MCCAIN:
0% on home sales up to $500,000 per home (couples). McCain does not propose any change in existing home sales income tax.

OBAMA:
28% on profit from ALL home sales

How does this affect you?
If you sell your home and make a profit, you will pay 28% of your gain on taxes.. If you are heading toward retirement and would like to down-size your home or move into a retirement community, 28% of the money you make from your home will go to taxes. This proposal will adversely affect the elderly who are counting on the income from their homes as part of their retirement income.

DIVIDEND TAX

MCCAIN : 15% (no change)

OBAMA : 39.6%

How will this affect you?
If you have any money invested in stock market, IRA, mutual funds, college funds, life insurance, retirement accounts, or anything that pays or reinvests dividends, you will now be paying nearly 40% of the money earned on taxes if Obama becomes president. The experts predict that 'Higher tax rates on dividends and capital gains would crash the stock market, yet do absolutely nothing to cut the deficit.'


INCOME TAX (find your bracket)

MCCAIN (no changes)

Single making 30K - tax $4,500
Single making 50K - tax $12,500
Single making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 60K- tax $9,000
Married making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 125K - tax $31,250

OBAMA (reverse all tax cuts)

Single making 30K - tax $8,400
Single making 50K - tax $14,000
Single making 75K - tax $23,250
Married making 60K - tax $16,800
Married making 75K - tax $21,000
Married making 125K - tax $38,750

Under Obama, your taxes will more than double!

How does this affect you? No explanation needed. This is pretty straight
forward.


INHERITANCE TAX

MCCAIN 0% (No change, Bush repealed this tax)

OBAMA Restore the inheritance tax

How does this affect you?

Many families have lost businesses, farms, ranches, and homes that have been in their families for generations because they could not afford the inheritance tax. Those willing their assets to loved ones will only lose them to these taxes.


NEW TAXES BEING PROPOSED BY OBAMA

New government taxes proposed on homes that are more than 2400 square feet.

New gasoline taxes (as if gas weren't high enough already)

New taxes on natural resources consumption (heating gas, water, electricity)

New taxes on retirement accounts, and last but not least....

New taxes to pay for socialized medicine so we can receive the same level of medical care as other third-world countries!!!

THE FOREGOING IS SOMETHING YOU SHOULD BE AWARE OF. . . IT SHOULD MAKE YOU THINK BEFORE YOU CAST YOUR VOTE IN NOVEMBER.
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Old 08-30-2008, 07:42 AM
BayRat50 BayRat50 is offline
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Default Pres. election

It is neat to read on this site,...how well read and up to date the board members are.With all of the out right lies being passed by the spin pros and the news orgs.,....it is hard to see thru all of the b/s.

BUT, please do your research into the facts of each person involved and you can come up with your pick.Who do you feel should lead {yes we are still a power house of a country in the world}our country?

As for me....I asked myself ...is J.Mc. really another Bush?After sitting and really watching his different talks around the country he has given...to me he is not even close to being Bush.The turn for me was when he {God forbid}out wardly declared pork barrel and hidden pork voted in to our federal bills stealing form the tax payers and he would veto all bills that do such,...I almost feel out of my chair.Those b/s bills alone are misspent billions of tax $$.This the holy grail of our elected pols.It was not picked by main stream news any where.Sad....it was a very important bombshell they wanted quelled.There is a bunch of other things as to why at this time I favor JM for pres.

As for Obama,...I held him supect after checking his present,... but his no votes in the federal senate seat.That after 143-150 days in office,..he stared his run for the pres. why.?.......... why,...with all of the heavy hitters that the Dems have in office did they pick Obama...and after hearing his b/s .....all I will say is I aint gonna drink the cool-aid.{ for those too young to remember LOOK it up-} in Washington.Man he can sling the b/s and sling it very very well.I watched him tell outright lies as the masses cryed and cheered the lord of new and changed USA.I'am floored .....

Lastly, OBAMA IS NOT BLACK,...;he is mixed race,and there is a box to mark if you are mixed race.Iam Irish and German desent,I cant remove the German and say Iam only Irish.How everI have raised two daughters,I love them as if they had my genes,they are from a black male and a white female !!! ,they are MIXED.....and for 20 some odd years I have had to MARK THE BOX MIXED now they mark the bos..Obama says hes black....and the whole world agrees Not one reporter has challanged him on it why?....its the race game from the start,...very ugly.

I asked myself ,...what has Obama done in his seat as a federal sen.,...that I can admire the most.............................................. ............ Other than " I can ,...I will,... I see no reason to vote for him .
Thank so much for letting me have a place to vent,You guys are alot more tuned in than you might think BR.

Last edited by BayRat50 : 08-30-2008 at 07:46 AM.
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Old 08-30-2008, 07:47 AM
ovalracer44 ovalracer44 is offline
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Sorry to bust the bubble Todd. FDR was new deal and Social Security.
War on Poverty, State of the union address, LBJ 1964.(Google 'war on poverty')
----JIM----
What We Todd is saying is that FDR is the one that started government handouts and welfare. Not LBJ like the first claim you made.
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Old 08-30-2008, 07:58 AM
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"OBAMA IS NOT BLACK"

I know this is completely irrelevant.......... but are you blind?

he portrays himself as being "African American"

I dont care if hes green, hes playing the whole race card big time.
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Old 08-30-2008, 11:08 AM
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What We Todd is saying is that FDR is the one that started government handouts and welfare. Not LBJ like the first claim you made.
My reference was to the "War on Poverty" by LBJ which 'GAVE' benefits,both cash and food stamps, to the poor without having to work for it.
The word welfare is first mentioned in the "Five Pillars of Islam' in the 8th century. England included the word welfare in the 'English Poor Law' of 1601.
Below is a paragraph from the history of welfare about FDR's contribution:

The United States did not have an organized welfare system until the Great Depression, when emergency relief measures were introduced under President Franklin D. Roosevelt. Even then, Roosevelt's New Deal focused predominantly on a programme of providing work and stimulating the economy through public spending on projects, rather than on cash payments.

Again, my referrence was about LBJ and his War On Poverty.....which is a TOTAL failure. Example: New Orleans 2005 (and maybe a repeat next week).
-----JIM------
(it's is raining here and we were getting ready to go to Volusia tonight..DAM)
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Old 08-30-2008, 11:11 AM
BayRat50 BayRat50 is offline
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Yup, good point. Have you now noticed that as of the end of the convention Obama is called ...a non white pres.cand. by the press.
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Old 08-30-2008, 11:43 AM
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This kinda' tells it.
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Old 08-30-2008, 12:03 PM
carolwicks carolwicks is offline
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Default a little disappointed

i think your answers were very interesting and mixed which is exactly what i wanted. thank you for all the information... it is obvious you are paying attention to some of the issues.
i learned a few things too...i thought for sure the Kennedys were the origin of welfare. Maybe they just allowed it to get out of control!
please continue as we are still a few months from the election and its never too late to make your choice...
thank you again for your responses ...totally respectful and honest answers. (with a dash of humor)... as long as Higginbothersome is around, we will get to giggle about life...thats a good thing. ;-)
OZZIE
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Old 08-30-2008, 03:45 PM
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Sorry to bust the bubble Todd. FDR was new deal and Social Security.

i wasn't asserting that LBJ wasn't responsible for the "Great Society" programs. i was pointing out that stating that LBJ was the one "who started that system of hand outs and welfare??" is wholly inaccurate.



Who had the first idea for the Interstate system.

no, Hitler had the idea for the first "Interstate" system. he called it an Autobahn.

and even if FDR had been responsible for Interstate highways, that in no way excuses all the other things he did.




OBAMA:
28% on profit from ALL home sales


in today's real estate climate? is he an f'ing lunatic? everyone who is considering voting for him has to be if they're aware of this.

it doesn't surprise me though, it fits in perfectly with his entire life history of associating with and espousing Marxist viewpoints and economic positions.




New gasoline taxes (as if gas weren't high enough already)

phrased inaccurately. "as if gas taxes weren't high enough already".




The turn for me was when he {God forbid}out wardly declared pork barrel and hidden pork voted in to our federal bills stealing form the tax payers and he would veto all bills that do such

given McCain's past history, i don't consider this anything more than campaign trail speechifying.

i agree with everything you say about pork barrel, but i won't in a million years believe that McCain is the man to take care of it.



Lastly, OBAMA IS NOT BLACK,...;he is mixed race

worse, he's more Arab than he is black. who were the people slaving the negro's out of the interior of Africa and bringing them to the slave markets on both the Atlantic and Indian ocean coasts? it wasn't white Christians, it was the Arab Muslims. just like Obama's dad.

and yet, the favored 'protest religion' of American blacks is the Nation of Islam. go figure.

he's also more "white" than he is Arab.




What We Todd is saying is that FDR is the one that started government handouts and welfare. Not LBJ like the first claim you made.


pimp slap my wimple and call me grandma. did Kevo just back me up?





I dont care if hes green, hes playing the whole race card big time.

his true racial origins are relevant only to the extent that it points out how gullible his voters are. but then, these people re-elected Marion Berry after he was a convicted crack smoking, whore soliciting felon and Ray Nagin after he totally botched the last round of hurricanes in New Orleans. and Barney Frank, he's still going strong. what do you want?

making this point is more an expression of frustration at the futility of modern discourse than a useful debating point.




Again, my referrence was about LBJ and his War On Poverty.....which is a TOTAL failure.

and FDR's "New Deal" was a total failure as well.

whether or not you agree with most modern economists that FDR's policies prolonged the Great Depression, it's indisputable that the country made no constructive improvement economically until the US started ramping up for WW2.

you've already admitted that FDR's policies are historically recognized as "welfare" so i'm not sure what arguing how wrong the Great Society was is accomplishing anything.

can we agree that FDR and LBJ both screwed the pooch pretty good?




New Deal focused predominantly on a programme of providing work and stimulating the economy

here's the problem: government programs competing with private enterprise destroy businesses and markets. it doesn't "stimulate" anything except government bureaucracy and head count. see: Soviet Union, Red China





i thought for sure the Kennedys were the origin of welfare.

how so? i don't care for JFK, but he was so pro-business on the tax side that i don't even see how he could get elected as a Democrat now.

and most of the modern welfare philosophies are fairly well rooted in the marxist dialectic when you get right down too it. i consider the Cuban missile crisis entirely JFK's fault, but you'd be hard pressed to say that he was friendly towards people of that persuasion.




3 months ago i was convinced that i would be making a protest vote for a third party this election cycle. having heard Palin's speech the other day ... i don't know. she sounds good.

on the one hand the VP slot is useless and vestigial. on the other, McCain could be very close to dementia and he has other known serious health problems. would it be worthwhile actually voting Republican on the off chance that McCain could kick the bucket or be found mentally incompetent?
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  #27  
Old 08-30-2008, 04:02 PM
ovalracer44 ovalracer44 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd McCreary View Post
Who had the first idea for the Interstate system.

no, Hitler had the idea for the first "Interstate" system. he called it an Autobahn.

and even if FDR had been responsible for Interstate highways, that in no way excuses all the other things he did.
Ok I should rephrase what I meant. Dwight Eisenhower was influenced by the Autobahn in Germany.

FDR had originally started the study and the idea was eventually passed on and funded under pressures of automakers. It was sold as a defense highway, the same as Germany. Although it was highly anticipated that the ultimate use would be personal vehicular traffic.

I dont think there is any argument to the benefits of the Interstate system. Could you imagine the state of florida evacuating using US1 and US 441?


Could one say that to an extent some of the liberal ideas have been bad? No, just like the far right has good and bad ideas.

For any man to have any respect for the woman that reared him, he must realize that it is some form of liberalism that gave women the rights that women experience today.
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  #28  
Old 08-30-2008, 06:21 PM
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Todd McCreary Todd McCreary is offline
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Ok I should rephrase what I meant. FDR was influenced by the Autobahn in Germany.

T,FTFY.

doing a little research, i see that autobahn's were actually conceptualized in the 1920's under the Weimar Republic. Hitler gets credit because he was the first to really get behind them.

either way, both Hitler and the Weimar Republic's interest in highway systems predates FDR's and is obviously where FDR and the auto companies got the idea.




No, just like the far right has good and bad ideas.

lemme guess. you would assert that Hitler was "right wing".




For any man to have any respect for the woman that reared him, he must realize that it is some form of liberalism that gave women the rights that women experience today.

if your mother couldn't vote, you wouldn't respect her? strange.....
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  #29  
Old 08-31-2008, 07:07 AM
BayRat50 BayRat50 is offline
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Todd after reading your post....I thought of a quote of the great O."I will stand with the mulims should the wind of war turn ugly."I think it's from one of his books.It also seems that his wife is quite the closet rad.lady.I think the dem's asked Princeton to seal her papers because they so far into the ozone.

She reminds me of ol' Hil and her papers.Few remember that Hillary was a Black Panther supporter,so much so that she was on their defence team.She seemed to think that bombing their fellow Americans was ok.

Hey ,..one more thing....If it's allright for "non whites" to vote for Obama for no other reason than he's black,....why is it "wrong for a "non black" to NOT vote for him because he is "black"?? I'am lost on that one

Happy Sunday...........
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