Charlotte County "Worst Show in the World"!!

[oldtimer]

I realize now why we hardly ever go to Charlotte County. Worst run program I ever witnessed! Been to over 1000 races all over the world and the first time we ever left before the late model feature (main event) was complete.

I can’t for the life if me figure out why, why you start the main event you been babbling about in large font all week at 10:15!!!! You run those factory stock junkers for 25 laps!!! Give me a break, the race takes an hour to run and the actual race is settled out in under 10 laps then it’s just cars going around the track – no competition whatsoever! 15 laps tops for that division on any night.

What track in the world then has an autograph session bringing out the late model only to return them to the pits!!! Instead they run the go karts and 30 laps, are kidding me!! Interview the top 4 drivers which takes another 10 minutes, next time interview the whole field why don’t you. “I want to thank my grandpa, my 3rd grade teacher, my goldfish and my pet snake!!” Here’s an idea instead of interviewing the whole go-kart field, how about telling the paying fans who came for the self proclaimed “Greatest Show in the World” late model race, who is actually in the race!! That down time before the cars reached the track would have been time to give the line-up! I mean there were 3 #77 cars in the race! It would have been nice to know who was actually in the race!! Idiots!!!

Having a full field of cars is great, we all read about it leading up to it, but run a stinking consi to get the field to 24 cars, which is pretty much the normal in racing for a 100 lap event. Just because everybody is gushing about the large car count doesn’t mean start them all!

The event finally - they ran at least 100 laps of caution before 40 laps of racing was complete cause there were too many cars on the track and half of them can’t drive. Who is that knob with the flag in turn one who for laps was trying to line up the last three cars of a 30 car field!! Who cares at that point!! Then we get to wait another ten laps waiting for the push truck to push start car 33 who by that time was several laps down and in the pits for Christ sake!!! At least at that point I wasn’t the only fan in stands upset, as many started voicing their displeasure with how long it took! 11:00 the race wasn’t even half way. Don’t give me any excuses about Mother Nature, that feature could have been run well earlier in the night!

Oh well, what a complete debacle the night was. Enjoy my family’s donation to the “Worst Show in the World” It will be the last time we pack the family up for some entertainment. Maybe the “blow hards” that will respond with excuses, can take this as constructive criticism and learn how to run a program and give the fans what they came to see at a decent time. We walked out with a bunch of them who were equally as disappointed as us not getting to see THE LATE MODELS GREASTEST SHOW ON EARTH!!!!

[Boneman]

You must not get around Florida very much. Many tracks, not all of them, but many in this state tend to make similar mistakes.

[Marty Little]

Go karts do not need to be part of a regular stock car program and the lower divisions need time limits. Weather not withstanding, a complete race program shouldn't run more than three hours. Who do some "promoters" feel they must keep fans at the track all night? Racers and fans alike appreciate a program being run in a timely manner and being able to leave for home at a reasonable hour, especially if they have have to drive for a couple of hours.
Just my opinon of course.

Marty Little

[Racefan99]

Go karts were NOT PART OF THE SHOW last night at CCMP....!!!


I was there.... no go karts anywhere....

If you are going to hate on something, at least know what you are talking about!!!!!!!!!!

There ain't no cure for stupid....:anim_pound:

(I do agree that it was a bad call to put the Late Models last, especially after making them return to the pits after the Autograph session. I'm guessing it was done to milk the concessions sales??? IMHO, every track promoter should always make sure the featured class rolls off before before 9pm. That allows the young kids to get home at a decent hour, and lets the fans who came to watch a specific class (like me) leave, without being forcefed the rest.)

[helper]

Hello,

As one who was there I will voice my opinion on it. First, they need to stop the time wasting autograph sessions when they have a 100 lap race because I have not seen a full show yet this whole season when they run the latemodels.

Next, they need to set a 2 lap to get in line rule, if you are not in the spot they tell you to go into after 2 laps you go to the rear, if you do not do that in one you are black flagged.

Another things is it supposed to be 100 laps green, if so stop counting the yellow flag laps, as we took the yellow on lap 60 and they started counting the yellows, as the race started again on 65, don't believe me check out the video. That was one I noticed there where probably more I will check that out on the video.

The racing was good, but too much time wasting and intentional stopping, #2 for example so he could pit under yellow. It makes me wish I went to the Latemodels at Hendry, it sounds like it was a better show.

[AJ14]

An obnoxious promoter does not a race track make . Reminds me of the fiasco with trying to get Steve off of the track a few months ago .
The " why the hell don't they run the featured races earlier in the evening " cry is starting to be heard . Just not at CCMP apparently . Obviously a track wants to keep the fans and racers there as long as possible in the hopes that they will sell more food , drinks , and souveniors . But the fan who started this thread isn't impressed with that strategy .
All featured races need to be run earlier in the evening , and time limits should be in place for the supporting classes . And it wouldn't hurt to put some thought into not overloading the shows with classes .

[backrow]

I used to complain about these issues, now I just stay home... It's sad, I dearly love the sport but I got so tired of the screwing around and the taking the fans for granted that I have all but quit going...

[leftfield]

Sounds all to familiar to my last visit to the "greatest show on earth" a couple of months ago. I Brought my 2 young daughters to watch the late models and got 4 hours of karts, mini cups and anything else they could think of to fill the pits that a 10 year old could run. They ran the heats and features for all support classes before they ran the Late models. Needless to say, I lost the fight in keeping my daughters and myself interested. Support classes should only run features the on the nights you have a "main event".

[Osmosis Jones]

Geez, Racefan99.....what would YOU call those ultra-exciting, mini cup thingies?....

Let's see....
Little, tiny wheels and tires....check....wee, small motors....check....annoying buzzing sound....BIG check....extremely boring "racing"......checkaroo.....

So let's call a spade a spade here....(not an Obama joke, AJ)....these are go karts.

Yer just mad cuz oldtimer called it like he saw it.


....'bout time more people did, too.


And yer right....there ain't no cure for stupid, Forrest.

[Racefan99]

Geez, Racefan99.....what would YOU call those ultra-exciting, mini cup thingies?....

Let's see....
Little, tiny wheels and tires....check....wee, small motors....check....annoying buzzing sound....BIG check....extremely boring "racing"......checkaroo.....

So let's call a spade a spade here....(not an Obama joke, AJ)....these are go karts.

Yer just mad cuz oldtimer called it like he saw it.


....'bout time more people did, too.


And yer right....there ain't no cure for stupid, Forrest.


Looks like the Village Idiot has returned.

Were you there????? They had 18 Mini Cups, and there race was one of the better ones of the night! Oh yeah.... did you see or hear the fans CLAPPING when the winning Mini Cup got out of his car? That's because he won the race by less than 2 feet... I guess the fans, including me, are all stupid, O' Wise One!

It was certainly better than the 25 lap Mini Stock feature, which only had SIX starters..... :smilie_bett:

I'll take Champ Karts, Mini Cups or whatever gives me a full field, with good racing.

Unlike you, I paid my money to watch the races at CCMP. I was there..... sitting in the grandstands.... Go post on something you actually observed, if you actually ever go to any races.

[andre]

Not to be mean or anything, but make a test, run a show with those mini whatever only, and check how many fans will show up. There will be your answer on how they are appreciate and welcome.

[OLD STYLE RACER 2]

Are you sure they were clapping for a good show?......Or clapping because they were done?.......Quit taking it so personally....Kart racing has it's place and so does local [ car ] racing.
So now OJ is the Village Idiot???.... Why?????........Cause he doesn't "CONFORM" to your way of thinkin ????????

[Osmosis Jones]

What....you can call someone stupid (for stating the obvious) in your post but you get your panties in a bunch when someone does the same to you?

Nice.

Village idiot. That's funny. Don't get too close to home there, Bobo...your village is still looking for you. Maybe you can hide out at the Superfan's house.

You really should take Andre's advice.....unless, of course you think he's an idiot too....you know, for having an opinion that doesn't match yours, and all.
Why don't you put up some of your hard earned "grandstand fan" money and put on a

MINI CUP EXTRAVANZA!!!!!:huepfen024::huepfen024:!!!!!!!!!

and then YOU can listen to the sound of one hand clapping.

Yours.


Unlike you, I don't have to attend a MINI CUP or CHAMP KART race to understand and comprehend what a GO CART is.
I can READ all of Bobby's over-hyped, painfully miss-spelled posts about racing under the big top and see that THEY were indeed on the card that night.

I didn't NEED to be there to post about it.
Thank goodness for free speech, huh?

In fact, I wasn't even posting about their race at all.
I was merely stating what you so obviously enjoyed pointing out....again.


Yer an idiot.
Better start running, Forrest. Those bullets will probably hurt.

[OLD STYLE RACER 2]

OJ, If I was Gay, I'd ask you to Marry me!!!!!!... AND for the record and Racefann99.....I'm NOT...........Matt just posts the OBVIOUS!!!!!!!!

[Bossmanfan]

I will bet you anything this clown didn't even go to CCMP this weekend. Either that, or they are just bloody ignorant. The Fast Mini Cups for one put on a hell of a show. There were a bunch of them and they ran the first 28 laps caution free. I don't think 1 caution for the whole race and a photo finish is so painful. Thunder Trucks and Mini Stocks were lean on cars, but that's just the way it is these days. The ecomony is tough, and with the exception of A-Dale, Mini Stocks struggle to attract cars. So do the the Thunder Trucks. Both of those classes were dropped at Desoto a couple years back, but Bobby is kind enough to give them a place to race. Other than that, you had over 10 cars in all classes. The Road Warriors were rough, but I don't think that is unique to CCMP. It's the nature of the beast. As for sending late models home, do you want to be the one making that call? Racers spend their hard earned cash to race, and nothing is more demoralizing that not getting to race. Bobby could have sent them packing and pocketed their entry money and everything, but that's not how he rolls. That is why you have 29 cars showing up!! If there were 40 cars, maybe he could have sent some home, but only after running a B-Main. At least they would get to race. But not with 29. CCMP takes care of the drivers. No track is perfect, but at least CCMP tries! I think you are just one of those people who live to bitch about everything.

[cfontfan]

First off i was at ccmp and was part of the late model show and i agree there was no reason to start 30 race cars in that race. Maybe if the quality of the cars were better then that might work but 3/4 of the cautions were brought out by the last 10 cars on the track.

O yea why the hell does these race tracks put lap down cars in line with the lead lap cars??? Makes no sense, they will run 5 more caution laps tryin to figure out where the car that gets lapped in 4 laps and brings out 3-5 cautions needs to be in line. So that way hes in the way again and causes another caution instead of maybe getting a "lucky dog" award or maybe just lining up at the back of the line.

It really could of been a good race if the field would have been narrowed done to 24. Anyone ever been to a Lucas Oil dirt late model race??? Ive seen 150 cars show up and 24 make the A main. And ive seen B and C mains that end up being better races than the A mains ever thought they would have been. I would have to bet that the guys Saturday night that were racing for 25th on back would have rather raced for a win in a B main and make a little extra money than get there race cars tore up and finished in the back.

Just a little vent after Saturday night. Some races have to run more than 10 laps green to start to get good.

[Bobby Diehl]

First of thanks to those who support us and short track racing. And I am sorry for those who didn't like the way the show went. We did not care for the out come either. But will work on it. Yes there are some GREAT ideas on how to present the show. Thanks for the views. We will try to re look at some of the mistakes we made. I think the Feature need to start at the latest 9:30, but 9 is the target time. The rain has been hard for everyone. From getting the show in or if cuts it short. I can tell you we had a full pits and there was two or three hours of delay. And then on the last two laps were cut sort because of the turn four looked like ,Lake Erie. Having a curfew we could not go past 11:30. But yes the show started to late. We will work on that. As far as Go Carts. The Mini Cups are a very much a part of the Short Track card throughout the County. Granted you may only like Sprint Cars, Late Models, Street Stock (were NASCAR came from), any of the many styles or types of race cars or trucks. Heck some love NASCAR, but some call them a Taxi Cabs. Oh yeah some say the trucks are make to tow race cars to the track. Others says if it has fenders it's not a race car. But, no matter if it is V8, 6 cyl, 4 cyl, two stroke or a single cyl. Heck INDY CARS had 4 cyl OFFY's for decades. So all of them have a place at the track. If you don't like a division go to the rest room or grab a quick conversation with another non supporter of that type of car in line for a drink. Heck call home to see how the family's doing back in other parts of the county. So you who give a view to improve are eyes and ears are open. Call 813-817-7223 and talk one on one to make it better. That's what we want as well. Thanks to the positive people and those who are negative. They are sometimes who have no one at home to talk to. We need to try to make them like the show as well. Just remember hind sight is 20/20.
This weekend we will have V8, 4 cyl, Open wheels, and a Car and Trucks with fenders. We seem to have them all. So for those who care here is the lineup for this week "Greatest SHOW on EARTH":
Lee Memorial Health Systems Family Night
Q AIA and R/S Towing Open Wheel Modified 50 Laps,
Signage Pro Fast Trucks Pro Touring 50 Laps,
Outlaw Modified 30 Laps
Fla Sun Coast Outlaw Street Stocks 50 Laps,
Jim's Amusments Sportsman 50 Laps,
Juniors Trim Shop Road Warrior,
SW Cable Bandelero and Legends,
Advance Auto Parts Mini Stocks
Call for your slabs. Marge in standing by 941-575-7223.

Remember never through rocks when you live in a glass house. Thanks and hope to see the happy ones again this weekend.
Booby "I'm listening" Diehl:huepfen024::sport009::huepfen024::sprachlos0 20:

[Rick Williamson]

Bobby, before I go any farther let me say I am trying to make this positive. You don't need FOUR 50 lap races in one night in the rain season in one nights races. That's 200 laps for just 4 classes. If you do, do it this way then give the other classes the night OFF! IF you just have to have ALL those classes do features ONLY in ALL CLASSES! But I remember you doing this earlier this year were you had 2 big races Sportsmen 50 laps and LLM's with a 100 lapper. And you also had 7 OVER CLASSES that night. It didn't work! Please stop packing your shows to full. It may sound good on here. That you can draw that many classes in one night. But those of us that have tried to saet through one of those night. See it as a not going to the races night. At least at the track that's tring to put it on. And it's no fun for the racers either. That's what burned me out was getting home at 3 or 4 am and going to work or church a few hours later. Oh AND ONE LAST THING ON THIS SUBJECT. Stop talking to the winning drivers after a race on nights like this. HAVE THE NEXT RACE PULLING ON THE TRACK AS THE LAST RACE LEAVES THE TRACK! Nothing I say again NOTHING in between the races. Good luck for your track this week and the rest of the year. Rick

[ancrdave]

Some thoughts:

Volusia Speedway Park: With no weather to screw things up, started on time... Even with an extra 4-cyl. make-up feature and kid's bike races (took 10 min. at intermission), finished by 11PM... Order of features: Late Model-Modified-Sportsman-Thunder Stock-4 Cylinder... If anyone wanteed to leave after the Sportsman, they could... but they missed the two best features of the night...

Racecievers: These things should be used by EVERY track... Volusia uses these in all classes and lining up cars is never a problem... plus they are a tremendous safety factor... Drivers can buy them or rent them from Taylor Racing Products... If they save you from being in one crash during the year, they more than pay for themselves...

Too Many Classes: Why do you have to run 9-10 classes each week with most of them having less than 10 cars? Also, why 3 classes of V-8 Bomber style cars and 3 of 4 cyl. cars... Too many classes that are mostly the same thing with too few cars... If you have a class that consistently has 5-6 cars or less, then you need to do away with them... Who you gonna have mad at you, 5 people?

Mini-Cup Cars: I love these cars WHEN THEY PUT ALL THEIR SILLY DIFFERENCES ASIDE and show up with some decent numbers... This looks like it happened at Charlotte Saturday... They really do put on a good show, especially at smaller tracks like Charlotte, Citrus and Auburndale...

Weather: If you have a weather delay, adjust the show accordingly... If the majority of your fans are there for a big LM, Sprint race etc., give them what they want as soon as you can... The fans who want to stay for the eight 4 cyl. classes that have 5 cars each can hang around until the sun comes up or they fall asleep...

[Bobby Diehl]

It alway nice to get good advise. We will work on it. But, Dave we have to have that many classes to stay open.
Bobby DDDDDDD:huepfen024:

[ancrdave]

You don't need tons of classes to stay open... 3-4 classes a week with a good car count+move the show along & get the crowd home at a decent hour+good concession food at reasonable prices = A good crowd who are happy with the product they are seeing... Remember, most of these folks have and never will own, drive or work on a race car... they are there to be entertained - nothing more...
Take Bloomington, IN Speedway (a Friday night track by the way)... They run 3 classes: Sprints - avg. 25-30 cars, IMCA Modifieds - avg. 20-25 cars and Street Stocks - avg. 15-20 cars... If they run a special show (LM, Midgets, Mini Sprints), they drop one of the other classes... Play to a packed house every week and the crowd is outta there by 9:45-10PM...
It will work... One big draw like LM, Sprints and Modifieds... Then one class of V-8 stock Cars, one class of 4 cylinders... Then how about a class of cars that are strictly 6 cyl FWD... This has been tried up north and in the midwest with huge success... There are a lot more old Ford Tauruses and Chevy Luminas around than there are Monte Carlos and Camaros

[Rick Williamson]

It alway nice to get good advise. We will work on it. But, Dave we have to have that many classes to stay open.
Bobby DDDDDDD:huepfen024:

Bobby I just don't understand how your statement can be true. Small cars numbers in ANY CLASS are boring period end of statement! I can't remember when Auburndale would have 5 or 6 Sportsmen. Even a class like OWM's or LLM's isn't good for a track. With only a few cars. Get over the idea that you "need" All those classes and alot more in the pits and stands will go home happy. And part of the way to help do that is like you and Rex do with the Sportsmen. In other words you race a class one week and the next week that class races at the other track. Do that to 3 or 4 more classes please. And one other very good reason to do that IS...........the class that races at one track and don't want to do the 2 hour trip to the other track. Can go on VACATION and not miss a weeks racing at the track they love so much. Gee what an idea. People need family time together and that Doesn't mean at a race track each weekend for 9 months a year.

[Osmosis Jones]

When ya lives by the back gate...ya dies by the back gate.


He needs that many classes because, like ALMOST every other track owner/promoter in Florida, that's where he is making his money.


I keep hearing about these great crowds at CCMP but the handful of times I have been there over the past couple of years, I could have swung a dead cat around and not hit anyone. There were a lot more fans than Desoto but still the word to describe it would have been...."sparse".

The more classes you try to squeeze into one curfew regulated program the more folks you can charge that jacked up pit fee.
"Remember to call early for your slabs!!!! We MAY run out so you better HURRY"
.....I never saw all the "slabs" filled up either, so....I saw a scheme like this described in a advertising manual before.

I guess what I'm saying is this: If your crowds have been SRO just about every week, as the CCMP "Army" would have us believe, then why would you "have" to have that many classes to stay open? Doesn't that say right there that you rely on the entry fees from these "racers" to stay open?

One more thing. Okay...maybe three.

What advertising/promotional manual has ever advised telling your buyer/fan to not pay attention to what you have to sell? That's like saying, "Our races are boring so please go watch a movie while we cater to someone else. Oh, hey...if you don't mind come on back later and MAYBE we'll have something for you to see.".....make your product so damn exciting that they'll be afraid to go to the bathroom until the races are over so they don't MISS anything!!!! Geez....come on, man!!! You keep saying you want input...(that's iNput, BTW)....but, really....what have you changed in your program that was due to someone's suggestion or criticism? I have seen post after post on here and other boards begging for tracks to cut the number of classes and get the fans out of the stands at a decent hour. With a curfew like yours, one would think this would be an idea you would embrace. Man, I would be freaking livid if I had waited all week (or two) to race only to be told "Sorry, but we screwed around so long with these little go karts and that unnecessary intermission that we can't run your division....again. Here's a few Bobby Bucks for your trouble" Three divisions, Four tops. You hear it time and time again. You guys really need to listen to the masses for a change. I mean, they are the ones who are paying to either race or watch, aren't they?

Lastly.....how long have you been running CCMP now? How many nights have you had to deal with the threat of rain or it's after affects?
You have GOT to have a pre-plan for that sort of a problem.
You can't predict when it's going to rain but you can damn sure have a plan for dealing with the problems that it causes with the track and/or the program. Have a game plan and STICK TO IT! Come hell or high water THIS IS HOW WE ARE GOING TO DEAL WITH IT!!! Everyone from the racers to the fans to your employees will appreciate consistency and fairness across the board.

Oh well. Take all this as negative or positive, Bobby. Or Racefan99 or anybody else for that matter. Sometimes the answers to problems aren't shiny and sweet and delivered by clueless sheep. Sometimes it's just about biting the bullet, looking inward with a discerning eye and changing what you think and believe in.


OJ

[MW68SS]

One of the best run tracks ever Sunshine Speedway - Mini Stock, Street Stock, Sportsman, Modifieds, Figure Eights. 5 very distinctive classes exciting races packed stands and heats and features in 3 hours. Autograph sessions and Ride-Along program before the races start. Sure do miss that place.

[ocalasp76]

At Bronson they run 4 classes every week with a figure 8 bus race every now and then. Some nights,like this coming Sat., they have something special like 'skid cars'. We start at 7:30 and are almost always done by 10:30 or 11. No alcohol served which is a good family atmosphere.
Pits are clean,no slab charges,good food,friendly staff and fair racin' rules for everyone. The four cyl. Hornets run a kidney bean race.....The crowd loves it and it's always the last race of the night.

Racin' is good at Bronson.:huepfen024::huepfen024:

-JIM-

You hit the nail on the head OJ......

[flvideo]

You can't convince me you wouldn't have liked the Mini cups Sat. They put on a good show. They are not Go karts at all. I was looking at one Saturday, Danny Scofields in fact, and they are every bit as well built as any stock car. Their cage is more elaborate than most you;ll see especially the side bars and the halo. They are precision built. I put a pic of the finish Sat as well as the first 3. The winner, who won by maybe 6 inches was David Poulan. Driver of Late Model in the UDLMCS, second was a young boy who is driving for Danny Scofield, owner and father of Jeff Scofield driver of the #07 SLM who campaynes all over and has won several late model championships. Danny bought 4 of them. The little gal of the #05 is cinda ray who drives the #05 Fast truck and does well. They aren't toys and they put on a good show. I have all ways gotten excited about watching 2 snails race if they are competitive. Just another take for what its worth.. Bob...

[Rick Williamson]

A lawn mower is a lawn mower is a lawn mower.

[flvideo]

Whats a mini cup?

They have a Tube Chassis,
Adjustable Suspension, Coil
over Shocks, Disc Brakes,
Rack and Pinion Steering

ENGINE: Honda GX - 390
4 Stroke OHV Single Cylinder
389 CC Horsepower
Electric Start - Clutch

BODYS: Chevrolet - Ford
Pontiac - Dodge

CHASSIS: 1.125 by .085 Mild
Steel - Mig Welded
Upper & Lower Control Arms
Caster - Camber -
Toe Adjustment -
Movable Pedals

[flvideo]

I ain't never seen a lawn mower like this.

[RSB]

Hate em!!!!!

[carolwicks]

I dont care for the little sputterboxes either. but there sure are alot of people who do... and every sport has a beginner class... almost all of our NASCAR cars started out in Karts... sure wasnt in their back yards. was at a local track... (USUALLY) one night we had about 30 karts and it was REALLY exciting. no kidding... and there were hardly any yellows ... it
was really competitive with alot of contact and its hard to believe how fast they are. not a sissy race at all!
if the tracks try to please everyone they will never get ahead... i think if its run smoothe and all the rules are 100% consistant , and the rules apply to EVERY driver, then listen to the fans. they will let you know if they're having fun! they will make noise and they will stay there...
i do agree there are way too many classes.but the tracks are really struggling to stay alive. they are taking desperate measures..... like it or not we are NOT the ones who have to run the show and pay the bills... so where do we get the nerve to insult these people whos livelihoods depend on their tracks. most of the races i see at CCMP are really fun... the crowds are fun ... i read all the time how much the drivers love CCMP because they are treated so well... that says alot. we can be critics and Bobby does listen to polite people but being nasty or insulting doesnt help... it just angers and makes people concentrate on the negative. i am glad when you guys come on here with helpful suggestions... and i hope they keep coming until we get it right! ;-)
carol

[Boneman]

If they made one change, ONE darn change, and the perception of mini cups would change from being a go kart to a racer. Dump the centrifigal clutches and let 'em shift. The fact that they can't pull accelerate from a standing start makes them look much too slow.

[SeminoleWind]

I don't get it? I've been viewing this board for over 8 years now and 25% of all the posts critisized track owners for not promoting, not filling their pits and not filling their stands. Bobby Diehl comes along and promotes, fills the pits and puts paying customers in the grandstands, as well as saving a struggling race track. What does he get? A bunch of grief over the way he runs his racetrack.

[Winger]

If they made one change, ONE darn change, and the perception of mini cups would change from being a go kart to a racer. Dump the centrifigal clutches and let 'em shift. The fact that they can't pull accelerate from a standing start makes them look much too slow.

Great point about the clutches. One other thing needs to be changed that I consider a serious safety issue. Either the cage needs to be enlarged, so adults fit in them, or the drivers size needs to be regulated. Several of them have their roof flaps up during a race because a drivers head is sticking up through it. Someone is going to suffer a cervical spine or compression fracture when one gets on it's top someday.

[Jimmy McKinley]

If there were *soooo* many of these "Mini Cup" cars, why, in that picture of the finish, do I only see the two cars...??

[Osmosis Jones]

Just when ya get a good discussion going......

BAM!

Someone feels like it's not a complete thread without a little emotional outburst of irrational thought and incomplete conclusions.

It's like the zookeeper throwin' a bucket of ice cold water on those two very friendly monkeys....it just kills the moment.

In other news.....

Rex....yeah, I agree with dumping the clutches and all but the one thing that would make them more interesting to me is to run them on a track that is more suited to their diminutive size. Go karts are even boring on a 1/4 mile oval track. To me, that is. Apparently to some others they are the cats ass.

Seminole....all I can speak about, and I stated this, is that the crowds I saw on the 4 or 5 occasions I was at CCMP were not anywhere close to being full. The coveted pit slabs that are hawked on here week in and week out were readily available to be occupied. Yet we hear that every race seems to be SRO(Standing Room Only) in the stands with full pits. If he is selling out these events and drawing a pit full of cars.....my question is, why would he need 27 classes with two or three cars apiece just to "stay open"? (yes, I'm exaggerating to make my point because I am a smartass. And yes, we all knew this) There has to be a break even point, right? I'd have to think that full grandstands and full pits should be puttin' the ol' ledger book into the black, right? Message board posts with bouncing icons and miss-spelled words do not a promoter make. I have seen posts ranging from badly run programs to totally idiotic calls made by CCMP officials (both on the track and in tech) to crappy food in the concession area.
NOT ONCE...have I seen a promoter try something new and attribute it to a suggestion he got from a concerned fan or a message board poster.
AND THEY ALL SAY THE SAME THING:
TOO MANY CLASSES!!!!!!

...and when one of these tracks goes under, have you ever heard the promoter/owner(former) announce that it was his/her poor promotional abilities that deep-sixed the deal? Yeah, fat chance of that happening. It's always the economy or some other lame ass excuse. It really cracks me up to see all these "We value your input (I mean, iMput) and welcome your suggestions". Can anybody point to one change made at a racetrack that was in direct response to a suggestion given?

Anybody?

Hello?.....Bueller.....Bueller?..........


As always,
Mr. Jones' kid

[Todd McCreary]

If there were *soooo* many of these "Mini Cup" cars, why, in that picture of the finish, do I only see the two cars...?

because not everybody can race for the win?

results page shows 16 in the field with 2 more in the pit that never made it out.
http://charlottecountyracing.com/html/results.shtml

besides, you can see a third car leaving the photo in turn 3. :engel016:




What does he get? A bunch of grief over the way he runs his racetrack.

you can always complain about something. and hey, we're racers. we're professional complainers ( aero push, not enough forward bite, that squirrel was ninja driving me, wah Wayne Anderson's punches hurt, etc ).



I don't get it?

we're the choir. let us know what, when, where and how much. we'll figure out the rest of the deal ( Diehl? :grinser010: ) when we get there.

the hype is unnecessary, here. and when most of the news that spreads between racers is word-of-mouth from people who've been there ... laying down a lot of hype is a good way to raise expectations to a level that can't be met.

hype? yeah, it has it's place. play it up for the fans and the local businesses.

some of what Bobby gets is just group dynamics. he's "the guy you pick on" now. which isn't cool, but it is what it is.




what would YOU call those ultra-exciting, mini cup thingies?

i've actually seen some decent Mini-Cup races, OJ.

way better than starting a 4 car field heads up, anyways.




An obnoxious promoter does not a race track make .

so, help him become less "obnoxious"?



and time limits should be in place for the supporting classes .
It was certainly better than the 25 lap Mini Stock feature, which only had SIX starters..

time limits are very important in a time crunch situation. many tracks use them.

Bobby, you may also want to give some thought to cutting the race length if you haven't got a certain number of cars. 12 laps is plenty for a six car field even if you give them a full invert. which you are doing, yes?

that should be another thing. your class doesn't bring 11 cars to the track, you get a full invert ( season points will stop sandbagging in the heat ) no matter what the rest of the track rules are. you must put on a show. you put on a show, you make it so the fans will "only need the edge" of their seat and that place will fill up.

and then you don't need so much hype.....



Not to be mean or anything, but make a test, run a show with those mini whatever only, and check how many fans will show up. There will be your answer on how they are appreciate and welcome.

too many civvies now days don't understand that some of the best racing often comes from the bottom classes. more passing and often more cars.

some won't even come out for anything but a "big" Late Model, Modified or Sprint Car race. but then, there's a lot of people down here who've been burned by poor shows....




and with the exception of A-Dale, Mini Stocks struggle to attract cars.

http://www.citruscountyspeedway.com/LarryMacMillan/LarrysReports/2009/081509.htm
really? i kind of think 11 on a 1/4 mile could be a good race.



First off i was at ccmp and was part of the late model show and i agree there was no reason to start 30 race cars in that race.

so what are you calling for? a 10 car B-main with 4 xfers? or you're just going to send 6 guys home?

until CCMP gets a better handle on their schedule, running a B-Main is just a headache.

sending them home causes a lot of hurt feelings.




Stop talking to the winning drivers after a race on nights like this.

on-track interviews have no place on a time-crunch night.

you want to talk to the drivers, have the two or three you want to talk too come up to the booth after their race and interview them between two subsequent races.




Racecievers: These things should be used by EVERY track.

Dave, i keel you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gZ6-6RbSEg

racers and tracks have been getting by with flags and corner workers for 50+ ( 100? ) years now. it's more about track discipline than it is anything else. maybe organize the signalling that the corner workers use and make sure the drivers know what it means.

besides, most of the mods, late models and trucks already have spotters and radios. the track could designate a spotter area and be able to have the spotter relay information if they wanted too.


Too many classes that are mostly the same thing with too few cars... If you have a class that consistently has 5-6 cars or less, then you need to do away with them... Who you gonna have mad at you, 5 people?

repeating for em-FASS-is on the sill-LABLE.

although, i wouldn't just want to throw them out. if possible, point them towards a class that it would be easy for them to set their car up for.

[Rick Williamson]

I ain't never seen a lawn mower like this.

Fact is I have seen better kids club races at Auburndale in real cars. The size, the speed and the sound of the mini's isn't what I come to a race track to see or hear. Sorry it's just how I feel.

[Winger]

what would YOU call those ultra-exciting, mini cup thingies?

i've actually seen some decent Mini-Cup races, OJ.

way better than starting a 4 car field heads up, anyways.

Have to agree that I've seen a few good mini cup races also. Seen a lot more lousy stock car races lately. Personally, I don't much care for the mini-cups but their races aren't that bad.

too many civvies now days don't understand that some of the best racing often comes from the bottom classes. more passing and often more cars.

some won't even come out for anything but a "big" Late Model, Modified or Sprint Car race. but then, there's a lot of people down here who've been burned by poor shows....


I couldn't agree more. Most track have their largest car counts in the "lower" classes. They're usually the most exciting races just because of the differences in experience.

I am one that was burned by poor shows when I first came to Florida. I stopped going to races down here. I started going again after Ocala went to dirt and finally discovered Eastbay and Volusia. I then realized there was some good racing down here. Maybe not like I was use to, but not bad. All these tracks have some things in common also. And I'm not talking about the dirt. Decent car counts, efficiently run shows usually, clean facilities, professional staffs, consistent rules and tech, and hype they can live up to.

and with the exception of A-Dale, Mini Stocks struggle to attract cars.

http://www.citruscountyspeedway.com/...009/081509.htm
really? i kind of think 11 on a 1/4 mile could be a good race.

Citrus had 17 mini-stocks this past week. I believe that is their smallest weekly class.

First off i was at ccmp and was part of the late model show and i agree there was no reason to start 30 race cars in that race.

so what are you calling for? a 10 car B-main with 4 xfers? or you're just going to send 6 guys home?

until CCMP gets a better handle on their schedule, running a B-Main is just a headache.

sending them home causes a lot of hurt feelings.

I agree that 30 cars is too many cars on any track smaller than a 5/8 mile. With 30 cars you should have 3 or 4 heats and a consi/B-main to determine the feature starters. Some of the guys will have to go home without running the feature. It's just the way it should be. They will have incentive to race harder if they think they may not make the feature. There shouldn't be any hurt feeling if they don't make the feature. That's racing and not making a feature is part of the show. When there are 40+ cars that show up for a UDLMCS race, some of them go home early. Are there hurt feelings because they didn't make the race? They may be upset and unhappy that they didn't make it but I don't think their feeling are hurt. They know the way it is before they come to the track. They know some cars will go home early.
Also, I've seen too many races where a driver will choose not to race in a heat. They say they're running for points and don't want to hurt their cars. Personally, I don't see the logic for doing this in the "lower" classes. These guys should be racing for fun and want all the racing they can get. There isn't enough money in the point funds, for most of these classes, to make that argument worthwhile.

stop talking to the winning drivers after a race on nights like this.

on-track interviews have no place on a time-crunch night.

you want to talk to the drivers, have the two or three you want to talk too come up to the booth after their race and interview them between two subsequent races.


Agreed that interviews and photo ops aren't needed in the time crunch nights. I hadn't thought of the drivers going to the booth but I think that's a great idea.

Racecievers: These things should be used by EVERY track.

Dave, i keel you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gZ6-6RbSEg

racers and tracks have been getting by with flags and corner workers for 50+ ( 100? ) years now. it's more about track discipline than it is anything else. maybe organize the signalling that the corner workers use and make sure the drivers know what it means.

besides, most of the mods, late models and trucks already have spotters and radios. the track could designate a spotter area and be able to have the spotter relay information if they wanted too.

RACECEIVERS SHOULD BE USED BY EVERY TRACK!!!! I agree with that statement 100%. Tracks have been using flags forever. They work fairly well for many situations. However, I remember when caution lights first appeared at tracks. Many people thought they weren't necessary. I doubt that anyone thinks that now. There are also tracks without corner workers. Ocala is one. I believe Volusia doesn't have any and I don't believe NSS does either. I could be wrong. They do have cleanup crews and safety workers. Regardless, raceceivers are a great safety feature that lets the drivers know if there a wreck and where. It's used to let a driver know they have a problem, jumped a start, are lined up wrong, are being given an extra lap to change a tire, and on and on. I hate watching races where it takes 4, 5, 6, 7 or more laps just to realign the cars after a caution and then they have to stop the field to do it. With raceceivers you don't have that issue. A good race director can get on the radio and tell the drivers to calm down and be patient if they see things getting out of control. I've heard them and seen it work. Raceceivers are fairly inexpensive, particularly compared to radios. For the cost of one practice night you could have one. Many tracks will rent them out also. There isn't any reason not to have them.

Yet we hear that every race seems to be SRO(Standing Room Only) in the stands with full pits. If he is selling out these events and drawing a pit full of cars.....my question is, why would he need 27 classes with two or three cars apiece just to "stay open"? (yes, I'm exaggerating to make my point because I am a smartass. And yes, we all knew this)

I don't understand this either. (I understand the smartass part and do agree with you on that):aetsch013:That indicates that he is relying on the back gate to pay for things. With few cars in many classes, the races are boring and the spectators stay away. I know this because I was one, am one, and know many others that say the same thing. Why can't most of these track operators realize this? If you eliminate or merge the classes these guys will still want to race and will race in a class that you have. You will still have just as many cars but more of them in each class. The races are better. Your back gate remains the same. The difference is your front gate will improve because the quality of the show improves.
The reason we see so many of these "traveling" classes like the mini-cups, champ karts, legends, bandeleros, etc. is because of the people they bring into the back gate. I don't believe that's a secret. I don't have a problem with going to a track that has them occasionally but when they become a part of the regular program and are promoted as Late Models or something else, there is something wrong. They may be specially built race vehicles but they aren't full sized race cars. Some people like them and others hate them. Some of us are ambivalent. I know of one huge race fan who will not go to the races where the "little cars" race because she doesn't like them. She would go if they weren't there, even if they didn't add any other race. She just doesn't want to try to enjoy something she doesn't like.

[Bossmanfan]

Sorry, let me clarify about the Mini Stocks and Auburndale comment. I need to be more specific. The Mini's I was talking about are the old 8 valve SOHC type. Ya know, Celica's, Mustangs, Dodge Chargers and Daytona's, VW Rabbits, etc. The older older type stuff that they let you do a little more with. I wasn't referring to what Citrus runs, they are more 4 cyl Bomber/Stock type stuff even though I believe they are pretty much 8 valve/sohc. CCMP also has these, but they allow multi valve and dohc engine, and it is a pretty healthy and affordable class. The stuff that isn't getting alot of cars are the old bastard type Mini's that pretty much only succeed at A-Dale. Heck, alot of the A-Dale Mini's come to CCMP when they have an off week. They aren't mod mini's, and they ain't stock either. I sold mine over a year ago because I knew the days of these cars were numbered.

[helper]

Hi all,

This is a suggestion I already sent to them if they would have used it this past week we would have been fine. That is to have the autograph session over in turn one, as they have done in the past, there is a nice pad there and then can setup tables for them or chair or even behind the turn one stands, there is room there to setup tables and chairs or something along those lines, and you don't tie up the track with getting people on and off, you can have any drivers come out, not just the late model, and every one could have a good time with out wasting 45 minutes to an hour on people walking around the track.

As for the minicups, they had some real good racing for second and third, best of the night as they where swapping positions every turn, then they wrecked and it was slow until the end. Not a fan of them but it was a pretty good race.

Laters...

[Frasson118]

"besides, most of the mods, late models and trucks already have spotters and radios. the track could designate a spotter area and be able to have the spotter relay information if they wanted too."

Radio's, spotters and mirrors have NO place in short track racing. They have had a huge part in ruining racing, as I used to know it. Having some guy on the radio telling his driver to run high, or block low, kills the competition factor.

Spotters are for car drivers.... racers don't need the damned things.

Before everyone jumps all over the "it's a safety feature to have a radio" bandwagon, I'll say Bullshit right now. All the safety aspects could come through the Raceceiver system. I'm pretty sure the race control tower will not tell Jim-Bob to "block the low lane", or tell Buford that "that sumbitch is coming on the outside... WALL him". You see, ALL drivers receive the same information at the same time as everyone else.

Funny how the Sprints, Dirt LM's, the Big-Block DIRT guys can make a living out of racing, WITHOUT the use of any radios or spotters, yet the average 14year-old Florida punk driving a Truck can't get around Speedworld without someone telling him what to do!

[andre]

Funny how the Sprints, Dirt LM's, the Big-Block DIRT guys can make a living out of racing, WITHOUT the use of any radios or spotters, yet the average 14year-old Florida punk driving a Truck can't get around Speedworld without someone telling him what to do!

I agree 1000%. Can't drive alone, get outta there!!!! 410 Sprint car are lightning fast and no radios!!!

Also, there was a mention that 30 Late Models at CCMP is too many, well, they started 30 at Thunder RD this past w/e, for the Labor Day Classic, 1/4 mile high bank, they ran 181 laps before the first yellow. 45 Late model showed up for 30 spots in the feature.

[andre]

Forgot to mention at the drop of checkered flag, there were still 30 cars on the race track, yep! They all finished the race.

[john tenney]

That's really not fair. In the Sportsman, my visibility was horrible. The mirror sucked and there was really no way to tell anyone was on the right rear quarter.

A spotter was a great thing to have.

[Edm]

That's really not fair. In the Sportsman, my visibility was horrible. The mirror sucked and there was really no way to tell anyone was on the right rear quarter.

A spotter was a great thing to have.

I could live with out them but being we are allowed I use them for the bigger races, mainly for safety and if we pit for changes. I think using radios for blocking is wrong and I really don't see any need for them in a 25 lap race. Some of these cars are very difficult to see out of but that is just part of the excitement.

Hey Jerry, radios aren't to blame for short tracks racings demise, Jeff Gordon is. Every little rich kid who can race comes out with all of there little friends in the best equipment money can buy, no matter what class and sits on their little lazy asses why dads and crew chiefs do all the work thinking they are the next Jeff Gordon. How many times have you been to the track and seen the kid get out of the car after the race was over and that was it, they were done working for the night? I see it every time I go to the track.

[john tenney]

I hope I didn't imply that I wanted to block people on my rear quarter. But I would have saved myself a big repair bill if Skip had let me know that Justin Reynolds was passing me on the high side in turn 2 that night, as I turned right to miss a car losing it in front of me.

[Hired Gun]

Just Wonering? If you put a Mini cup in water will it turn into a late model?3923

[ss29]

thats some fuuny shit right there....hahaha

[Edm]

NO........




it will turn into a bandolero.

[Rick Williamson]

I knew that someone would say, that all that's wrong with the world is Jeff Gordon's fault. Get real man.:(

[Edm]

I knew that someone would say, that all that's wrong with the world is Jeff Gordon's fault. Get real man.:(

Can you exaggerate that any more? I am sorry that I picked on your boyfriend.

[Frasson118]

Just a little bit of fact here about Jeff Gordon:

His parents were not the rich, overbearing, win-at-any-cost type parents. Yes, they did give Jeff his very first Sprint car. After that, every single car he's ever driven, has been someone else's car, and HIRED Jeff to race for them.

If anyone is at fault for all these rich kids driving full sized racecars is to blame, start with the track owners who FOOLISHLY allowed such young kids in to begin with. When I grew up, nobody under the age of 16 (and that was with a parent on hand to sign a release) was even allowed IN the pits, let alone drive a racecar. Until recently, kids as young as 8 years old could be driving full-sized racecars at OSW. They are sooooooooooo lucky none of those kids got seriously hurt. If they had, we sure wouldn't be bitching about all the rainouts there... we would be reminiscing (sp?) about when OSW was still around at all.

If parents are gonna be completely foolish with their money, there will always be a promoter willing to take the cash from them.

But is it good for the sport? HELL NO!!!

[Frasson118]

P.S. - By the way, I am NOT much of a Gordon fan, but you're blaming the wrong guy... these PARENTS deserve the blame, not so much the kid. If I was a rich teenager, would I turn down an offer like these kids get? Not a chance. But the parents are the ones doing a disservice to their kids by teaching them that all your troubles can be fixed by others if your checkbook is fat enough. The few young kids who actually DO most of the work on the cars, deserve all the support and respect that they are earning!

The rich boys are just driving up the cost for everyone else. But they don't care... they'll be gone in 2 seasons anyways!

[Edm]

(as I pull my hair with BOTH hands) My whole post was using sarcasm while taking a jab at the parents of all these rich do nothing kids. Sorry for any confusion.

Jeff Gordon is not the one to blame. There all better.

[Old Sunshine Fan]

(as I pull my hair with BOTH hands) My whole post was using sarcasm while taking a jab at the parents of all these rich do nothing kids. Sorry for any confusion.

Jeff Gordon is not the one to blame. There all better.

HELL NO!

I still think you were picking on poor Jeff... I think you are jealous of him... (1)he can drive, (2) has had two good looking wifes, (3) has a bunch of bucks and a real big boat/ship.

But don't get carried away... I am not a fan of his either (as Jerry isn't). I'm just trying to stir up some mud "For a Change". LOL

[Edm]

HELL NO!

I still think you were picking on poor Jeff... I think you are jealous of him... (1)he can drive, (2) has had two good looking wifes, (3) has a bunch of bucks and a real big boat/ship. ok, 2 out of 4 isn't bad. Not jealous though.

I'm just trying to stir up some mud "For a Change". LOL

Keep the "change", nothing new here.

[Osmosis Jones]

2 out of 4 isn't bad?

Remind me not to let Ed count our change at the beer window.


On a topical note......

aww.....nevermind....everybody knows MY thoughts on underaged kids in full sized racecars......


OmygodiJustshatmyself

[Edm]

"does big bucks and a boat" count as 1 or 2? Usually an "and" would indicate/require another number. Only in Florida, good thing our votes don't count.

[Osmosis Jones]

Stop splitting hairs you whiner....

Old Father Time can't be expected to adhere to common grammatical laws....

He numbered the reasons, didn't he?.....so what if he has run sentences once in a while.......

Remember: we need to be more compassionate with our criticisms of other board members.

Amen.

[Old Sunshine Fan]

Old Father Time can't be expected to adhere to common grammatical laws....

He numbered the reasons, didn't he?.....so what if he has run sentences once in a while.......

Remember: we need to be more compassionate with our criticisms of other board members.

Amen.

HEY OJ... does that big red word have something to do with my Dad's Mom... see - you can't fool me.

AND, its only "Once in a while" that I DON'T have run "ON" sentences (not sure what "Run Sentences" are any way.

And that last sentence - nice, but it has a bit of "Mother Hen" spin to it... just doesn't sound quite right coming from "OJ"... but then, you just came back and surly don't want to fire up the natives this soon.

[Rick Williamson]

Can you exaggerate that any more? I am sorry that I picked on your boyfriend.

kiss my a$$

[Edm]

kiss my a$$

That might explain it, it is 2009. I wouldn't let another man kiss MY ass but to each his own.

[Osmosis Jones]

I thought that last line positively DRIPPED with my special brand of sarcastic wit......lol

well...maybe you had to have read that special chicken mom's post on another thread....hey just because I'm back and I get tired of hearing politically boring rants and raves, don't think I'm going all pacifist...

...I'm ready to rock. Just had nothing to really offer lately. Haven't been to the races in a month of Sundays and other than the boring political crap, the only stuff I liked to read about was the reunion and I couldn't get off to go to that either......so......here I am.

Bored at work and sitting in front of a computer. Taking shots at you bozos.

So bite me.


OJ

[Old Sunshine Fan]

I think I'm gonna back off for a while..

One of you guys is asking another guy to kiss his booty and now you go and ask me to bite you....

I don't roll that way (unless the money is REALLY GOOD, then we could MAYBE talk, but I want the money first - while I am sitting on my motorcycle and it has to be running)

Good to have you back around again OJ... but I dont think anyone wants to bite you..well, maybe EDM...(but he's gonna be busy for a while kissin that other guys booty)

[Winger]

EDM backed off on Jeff Gordon since he found out Jeff's screen name is AJ14. :huepfen024::ernaehrung004::aetsch013:

[Todd McCreary]

Radio's, spotters and mirrors have NO place in short track racing. They have had a huge part in ruining racing, as I used to know it. Having some guy on the radio telling his driver to run high, or block low, kills the competition factor.

who said i was in favor of them?

but the fact is, that the rule book often requires radios in the higher classes. if the book is requiring the expense of a two way radio, why are we wasting more time and money putting in racecievers?

and i don't care for your throwing mirrors under the bus with the other stuff, but whatever.



Regardless, raceceivers are a great safety feature that lets the drivers know if there a wreck and where. It's used to let a driver know they have a problem, jumped a start, are lined up wrong, are being given an extra lap to change a tire, and on and on.

every single one of those functions can/should be performed by a competent spotter on a radio.

and i'm not much impressed by your "safety" argument. in almost every case on a short track, either the driver should have seen the wreck before he got into it or there was never time for the spotter to tell him it was happening anyways.

there's no cure for people who can't figure out how to drive further ahead than the rear bumper that's right in front of them.

and as Jerry points out, there are plenty of big time, big speed, big money series that don't have any radios at all. just to prove my point.

course, when you've got a 14 year old behind the wheel they usually need somebody holding their hand all race long....




don't think I'm going all pacifist

remember, you can't spell "pacifist" without "FIST".



other than the ... political crap, the only stuff I liked to read

the dreadful truth comes out. deep down inside, OJ is really just a policy wonk.



but then, you just came back and surly don't want to fire up the natives this soon.

OJ is always surly, it's part of his unique charm.

[Osmosis Jones]

Didn't I warn you about message board supremacy?......tsk tsk tsk.....

SURELY you don't want to see a surly OJ?.....don't make me implement MY personal policy and open up some tupperware full 'o' whupash.....cuz I'll definitely show ya where yer buddy brokedickmike can shove his "FIST", I'll tell you whut......


BUT I DIGRESS......and have to agree with the Senator from Sebastian on his assertion that a competent spotter can be helpful and.....well, hell....I agree pretty much with his entire response about raceivers vs radios.....especially the hand holdin' part w/ the underagers......1/2 mile and shorter / no radio needed.....makes me wonder how all my old heroes ever got by without somebody squawkin' in their ear lap after lap........

[Winger]

Regardless, raceceivers are a great safety feature that lets the drivers know if there a wreck and where. It's used to let a driver know they have a problem, jumped a start, are lined up wrong, are being given an extra lap to change a tire, and on and on.

every single one of those functions can/should be performed by a competent spotter on a radio.

True but someone has to notify the spotters first. Plus the raceceivers are much less expensive than the radio. Less than $100 for raceceivers vs. whatever a radio system costs. $1000? Most of your lower or beginning class teams can't afford that. I don't have a problem with the radios. I actually enjoy listening to the conversations on them. I think they're great if a driver needs to make a stop and needs to let his crew know what he wants. I don't like the blocking aspect of them and I think that's the main reason some organizations don't allow them. Again, I think raceceivers should be required by all tracks and cars. I don't have a problem with the radios. BTW, most of the big time series Jerry referred to require raceceivers.

A little story here. Not long ago I was listening to my scanner at a local track. There had been an altercation and race control was telling a driver to go to the rear for some reason. The spotter on the radio, who I assume was the father, was telling the kid he better not give up his spot and to ignore the officials. That's paraphrased and not verbatim but you get the gist. Now, who do you think the kid should have been listening to? If he hadn't had the spotter it would have been an easier ride home, I'll bet. :)

[Todd McCreary]

That's paraphrased and not verbatim but you get the gist. Now, who do you think the kid should have been listening to? If he hadn't had the spotter it would have been an easier ride home, I'll bet.

"verbatim"? that's one a them thar big words. now you're just trying to get on OJ's good side.

unfortunately for you, OJ doesn't have a good side. he's ugly no matter which direction you're coming from. :grinser010:




That's paraphrased and not verbatim but you get the gist. Now, who do you think the kid should have been listening to? If he hadn't had the spotter it would have been an easier ride home, I'll bet.

there's another good reason to have a designated spotter area.

any spotter that pulls a stunt like that should be banned from spotting at the least and probably get a suspension. the same goes for telling a driver to take somebody else out.

drivers are crazy enough as it is, we don't need anybody egging us on.

you can tell the driver to pull over and talk to a corner worker and explain his side of the story but going any further than that is ridiculous and pointless.

[Winger]

unfortunately for you, OJ doesn't have a good side. he's ugly no matter which direction you're coming from.

Agreed. :)

drivers are crazy enough as it is, we don't need anybody egging us on.


Damn, agreed again. Guess this thread is dead. :huepfen024:

[FAST MINI CUP SERIES]

Whats a mini cup?

They have a Tube Chassis,
Adjustable Suspension, Coil
over Shocks, Disc Brakes,
Rack and Pinion Steering

ENGINE: Honda GX - 390
4 Stroke OHV Single Cylinder
389 CC Horsepower
Electric Start - Clutch

BODYS: Chevrolet - Ford
Pontiac - Dodge

CHASSIS: 1.125 by .085 Mild
Steel - Mig Welded
Upper & Lower Control Arms
Caster - Camber -
Toe Adjustment -
Movable Pedals


CORRECTIONS BEEN ADDED SINCE THEN

1- Port & polish, cut head ,large valve springs , stock
valve size (oem) anything else will be deemed illegal.

2-Cut flywheel, Not less than 10 lbs
6- 8 lbs Billet Flywheel is for Safety - recommended

3-Any timing keyway

4-Any cam shaft, But May Not cut crank , block, lifters
seats. Bigger Cams -
Any Cam that just drops right in
without cutting Engine Casing,
Crankshaft, Lifters, Timing gears,
Connecting rod to make Clearance
to make Cam fit or work.
May not cut or grind to get Cam to fit.

5-A.R.P connecting rod is ok

6-New GX 390 piston is ok

7-Pro carb, Must meet MMRA spec.& rules ( NO GO )

8-Header Not less that 28 inches from head (+ - 1/2 )
with muffler Not less that 32 inches (+ - 1/2 )
Anyother modifications will be " DEEM ILLEGAL"


NOTE: Only American Mini Cups run these
Roller rockers, large push rods, Cutting & decking of
piston & block


THEY WILL RUN OVER 100 MPH
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[ps11]

That sounds like an expensive GO KART!!!:(